Dear casual Dive listener,

For 13 episodes, we've had some fun. We've talked to cool people. We've learned about things we never cared about, like Oregon tax code and street width. And through it all, I've been here behind a microphone in my dorm room talking at you.

That all changed last week when I asked all of you to help me with this little show we started 91 days ago. At the end of Episode 12, I asked you to email me (at on how to better end this show. We got great answers, and one of your suggestions was selected to end Episode 13. But as much as I like these ideas, the most popular answer—and by far my favorite—is that you wanted to hear from readers and listeners themselves. So, starting this week, I will be concluding shows with short conversations with you, the listener. If you have anything you want to say on Dive, email me at and let's talk about it.

But what about this week? This week, we dug into the freezer and found ice cream.

These interviews were taped in December. Remember December? Before then, we didn't know what a "Capitol insurrection" was. What innocent children we were. But let me tell you, these interviews have aged like a fine wine. The founders of Powell's Books and Salt & Straw ice cream company described what it's like to own a business during this time as well as what the future holds for these Portland institutions. It's a nice pairing—a dessert, if you will—following this week's cover story on jobs. Most people want ice cream. Everybody wants a job. Probably.

Listen on Spotify.

Listen on Apple Podcast.