Voices

Each year at this time, we take a break from breaking news to do something a little different. We open up our pages to a handful of Portlanders and give them enough space to share their insights in more than soundbites. Some years we've
chosen people whose names have never been in the newspaper. This year, we focused on three women who are used to getting ink, yet have not had the chance to tell their stories at length.

Susan Faludi, Goli Ameri and Sharon Kitzhaber share an intense interest in the political system, but one they've developed from
vastly different perspectives.

Faludi, a Pulitzer Prize-winning writer, is the consummate outsider who thrives on sorting through the debris when popular culture smashes into political power.

Ameri, a small-business owner running for a seat in Congress, says her immigrant experience qualifies her to be part of America's 200-year-old experiment in democracy (though some say she's in the wrong party).

And Kitzhaber, after spending eight years as Oregon's First Lady, is glad
to walk away from a process that, she says, left her
ex-husband unfairly cast as
a sullen isolationist.

It's unlikely that these three women would ever show up linked on Friendster.com (though Ameri and Kitzhaber had met previously), but for one issue, at least, we've brought them together for an extended conversation with our readers.

Susan Faludi

Born: April 18, 1959, in Queens, N.Y.
Oregonian since: 2001
Occupation: Journalist and author of Backlash: The Undeclared War Against American Women and Stiffed: The Betrayal of the American Male.
Awards: Pulitzer Prize for explanatory journalism for "The Reckoning," a Wall Street Journal article published in 1991 on the human costs of the leveraged buyout of the Safeway supermarket chain. The 1992 National Book Critics Circle Award for Backlash.
Current Project: Researching gender and communication issues within the environmental movement, focusing on Earth First! organizers Judy Bari and Darryl Cherney. Slated for publication in 2005.
Family: Lives in Northwest Portland with her partner of 12 years, editor Russ Rymer, author of American Beach: A Saga of Race, Wealth, and Memory and Genie: A Scientific Tragedy.
Education: In 1981, graduated summa cum laude with a major in history and literature from Harvard University, where she was managing editor of The Harvard Crimson.
Past lives: Has worked as a staff reporter for newspapers in Miami, Atlanta, San Jose and San Francisco.
Last book read: Finishing up An American Tragedy by Theodore Dreiser.

In the early 1990s, Susan Faludi was photographed and quoted as if she were Gloria Steinem's little sister, transformed with the publication of her first book from a mild-mannered journalist into a new generation's feminist icon. Faludi's meticulously researched, landmark book, Backlash: The Undeclared War Against American Women, published in 1991, fired a fresh round of debate in America's gender wars, leading, inevitably, to a backlash against Faludi.

Eight years later, Faludi surprised readers with 1999's Stiffed: The Betrayal of the American Male, a sympathetic examination of how a celebrity-driven consumer culture has screwed over a generation of men. Faludi grew up in New York and lived in Los Angeles, working for newspapers in Miami, Atlanta and the Bay Area over the course of her career. In 2001, she and her partner, Russ Rymer, settled in Northwest Portland. In two conversations earlier this month, Faludi talked with WW's Ellen Fagg about men's rooms, women's roles and living in Portland.

WW: You've written so much about gender issues and how image is exaggerated by media and popular culture. On your book tours, what was it like being inside that glare of the media spotlight?

Susan Faludi: I'm protected from that somewhat because I write books instead of play a guitar or star in Julia Roberts movies. So right there, you've eliminated about 90 percent of the Americans who don't read. The main impact you have when you write a book--if the book takes off--you appear on covers of magazines. And most people are aware of you in that guise more than they're aware of what you've written.

What can you do about the fact that your appearance becomes a big deal when you're promoting a book?

There's this big contradiction between writing a book, which is all about you stating your opinion forcefully, being an authority and being physically invisible--and the aftermath, which is all about hair products and being careful to say the right thing in a TV interview. So you find yourself fighting this constant, low-level battle of trying to somehow protect yourself from this battery of people who are just doing their jobs, but they perceive their job as turning you into a pleasing product that they can market.

What's your take on how feminism has been portrayed in the press?

Look at the New York Times Magazine. If you go back and look at the cover photographs they've run over the years,it's always something about "Whither Feminism?" And the answer is, feminism is dead and no self-respecting woman would ever identify herself as a feminist. And every single cover are these gray, dour women who are not themselves gray, dour women--and they're dressed in widow's weeds with sort of cast-down, depressed expressions. A perfect example of this is what happened with the Time magazine cover [March 9, 1992]. The photographer chose to photograph it in the men's room, for reasons best known to him.

You in a men's room?

Me and Gloria Steinem in a men's room. We're sitting in this blue-painted men's room next to this little window, and the photographer kept saying, "Don't smile. Don't smile." And we both kept smiling, but over three hours, eventually he catches a few pictures of us where we're not smiling. And the photo they chose to use was of us both looking very dour, like the worst thing that ever happened to us was women's liberation and we haven't smiled since. And we're sort of gazing pitifully and a little bit sinisterly out of this window. I remember a friend of mine said, "This picture looks like the two of you are hiding out in the Texas School Book Depository waiting to knock off Kennedy." And that's the one they chose for publication. Not that I want to look like little Pollyanna smiling, but there are other ways to take pictures.

Why do you think your book Backlash captured so much
attention?

The book came out at a moment when there were a lot of pissed-off women who smelled a rat. The Clarence Thomas hearings had just happened, and that inspired huge numbers of women to question how friendly a culture they were really living in. The right to abortion was hanging by a thread. That was a real wake-up call to women, who then threw themselves into the presidential race.

What can you claim as specific benefits that you received as being a woman of your era?

It was everything. I went to Harvard [1977-1981], which before 1971 was boys-only. Every newspaper job I've gotten, every lawsuit that was filed over pay equity. Most importantly, 1973, the year I turned 14 and became a woman--as they say in the Kotex ads--was the same year that abortion was legalized. That changed everything. My mother went through several illegal abortions and nearly died.

Have you found things have changed for women in popular culture since your book was published?

The backlash of the '80s was pretty blatant: movies like Fatal Attraction, cover stories about college-educated women who better hurry up and get married or they're gonna be killed by a terrorist. That's not how the game is played anymore. It's much more subtle, and it's more flattering to women, so it's harder to see what the underlying message is. A lot of young women have bought into the idea that liberation is about showcasing your body.

Examples?

There are a bunch of these pop singers, Britney Spears types, who say, "You know, it's my body. I can have sex with 45 boys who treat me like shit and feel good about it." Then there's the whole marketing of Botox and liposuction as a self-esteem tool, this idea that treating your body as a commodity is empowering when all it really is is conforming to a cultural idea.

For your second book, Stiffed, why did you decide to take on the topic of men's problems?

It seemed like the obvious next step in feminism. Historically speaking, women had made remarkable changes in a very short span of time, and the question of male resistance to women's equality seems to me like the $64,000 question.

What about men's role in popular culture?

In a funny way, men in a post-industrial society--particularly younger men--end up in a position that's rather similar to women. To exercise power, to get attention, to rise up through the ranks, you need to manipulate image and think about appearance and brand yourself, and it's all about what you look like rather than what you do or what your craft is or how skilled you are.

What kind of cultural changes have you seen since that book was published?

What we've lost in the last few years is this sense that we can make any kind of change through politics. Here we are in this period of a shocking series of betrayals on the corporate level, the Enrons, et al., on the political level with this nightmare that our administration's gotten us into through lying, wholesale lying to the public, and the economy is in the toilet. And yet where is the outrage? Where are the political voices? Where's the political leadership? It's a challenge for us. Where is the average person, and why aren't we out on the streets?

How do you explain that? What is going on culturally to make Americans less likely to think change is possible?

It goes back to living in an ornamental culture. You have to put together a story to explain the world before you can expect people to rise up politically. You look at what the Bush administration is doing. They are brilliantly manipulating visual image, and they're creating a faux-narrative, and they're stringing them together, and it's that image culture that has erased any real kind of organic, grass-roots narrative.

And where's the press in all of this?

I think there's a whole S&M thing going on, with the political press corps bowing down and being dominated by Big Daddy. You compare the way the political press is covering the Bush administration with their hyper-critical attacks on Clinton, and even poor Gore for the slightest little missteps, but then I think it was because they felt Clinton was just too available, too vulnerable, too accessible, too much like a woman.

What about Schwarzenegger and reports of him groping women? Should it have mattered to California voters?

The same men who were so turned off by Clinton's philandering didn't have an issue with Schwarzenegger because Clinton's escapades were much more rooted in him being a sensualist. You look at the descriptions of those [Schwarzenegger's] gropings and they were all about just reaching out and grabbing, and being on top. There wasn't any interest in the woman in question in particular, and in many cases, it was really a move to humiliate the man who was the boyfriend or husband of the woman.

So in your view as a journalist, is the backlash against women's issues still going on? Is there a new generation, third or fourth wave, or whatever it would be, of a feminist movement?

Beyond reproductive rights, which is really a holding action, I think women individually have much more assimilated feminist attitudes. That's no small thing--we shouldn't discard that as insignificant. But the idea of a movement where people are working on an idea and supporting each other and unified by a political vision, that I don't see happening in any kind of national way.

What's your response to the people who claim feminists don't like men?

One thing you have to say about anti-feminist rhetoric is it is unbelievably, unimaginatively unchanged over more than a century. Feminists are humorless, they hate children, they are grim-faced, they are shrill, they sound like cockatoos. The only new thing that's been added to the repertoire of misogynist canards in the last 50 years is the failure of feminists to shave their legs, since they didn't have Gillettes back in 1855.

I've read interviews you've given in the past when you talk about the lipstick question: that feminism isn't just about wearing makeup or not. It seems like that's a question that gets asked over and over...

Because it's a diversionary question. On the makeup question, I don't see anything wrong with men or women wearing makeup. I personally don't find it (a) that interesting and (b) I'm just not very artistic in that area. If I do put on makeup, I end up half the time looking like Bozo the clown so then I have to remove it. If you want to dress up and have fun, then why not? Feminism isn't against frivolity. Especially in Portland, where a lot of men wear nail polish, it's not that big of an issue or a gender divide.

OK, beside the fact that men can wear nail polish here, why did you move from L.A. to Portland?

We wanted to live in a place that had an identity that had to do with social responsibility and a city that was still thinking about defining itself in a way that involved a real sense of local citizenship and taking care of each other. I say that knowing that Portland is far from ideal, but the mere fact that there's been a sustained social experiment in everything from the urban growth boundaries to the--now sadly diminished--health plan for the uninsured to a thought-out scheme of mass transit.

What is interesting to you about local politics?

I think you can actually make a difference here. If you have an idea and you're passionate about it, you can do something about it. I'm intrigued by all of this, but I'm not at all a player.

You made a deliberate choice to move here. Have you found anything distinctive about the people you've met here?

There's a lack of pretension and a lack of self-promotion in this town that is really striking when you move here from L.A.

Can you think of an example of that?

People are much more interested in what trails I've hiked in Forest Park than they are with where I am on some status ladder. It's more, well, if I get to know you, are you going to be somebody that I like? There isn't that kind of frantic grasping quality here.

Now, about your personal choices: You don't have children, and I'm assuming that was a deliberate choice...

It was a fall-into-it sort of choice. If I were hell-bent on getting pregnant, I know how to do that, but I can't sit here and say that I made any sort of categorical choice. It's not that I would necessarily have been opposed to having children, I was just doing other things. For me, my writing life and my creative work--those are reproductive outlets for me.

Married?

We're not married--there's another decision that was not made in any kind of systematic way. The marriage question was mostly laziness, the same problem as the makeup--you know, all those thank-you notes you have to write afterward. But underlying that, there's a desire on my part not to be defined by the prevailing culture.

Or maybe a desire not to be defined by whether you choose to have children.

One of the signs of living in a feminist society will be when women aren't asked that question anymore. It's not like we need more people on the planet, so I don't feel like I've failed to do my part for society. I think what we need are not more mothers but more aunts.

Goli Ameri

Born: Sept. 26, 1956, Tehran, Iran
Oregonian since: 1974
Occupation: President of eTinium, telecommunications consulting firm.
Current project: Running for the Republican nomination in the 1st Congressional District (West Portland to Astoria). The seat is currently held by Democrat David Wu.
Family: She and her husband, Jim, live in Tigard with their son Sherwin, a ninth-grader at Catlin Gabel. Their older son, Darius, is at Stanford.
Education: Studied at the Sorbonne in Paris; bachelor's degree in communications and French literature, Stanford University, 1977; master's in communications and marketing, Stanford University, 1979.
Connections: Advisory board, Center for American Women in Politics, Portland State University; delegate, National Republican Women's Conference.

For nearly 30 years, westside Republicans have been looking for a way to reclaim their former lock on Oregon's 1st Congressional District seat. Stretching from West Portland to Astoria, this seems like fertile GOP territory: third-generation farmers, commercial fishermen, plenty of loggers, and independent high-tech workers.

Republican and Democratic registration is even, with nearly a quarter of the voters declaring themselves independent. Yet Dems have kept the seat since 1976.

Goli Ameri wants to change that. The Iranian-born telecom consultant is not a complete newcomer to public life--she's often quoted in articles about the phone business, and she serves on U.S. Sen. Gordon Smith's finance committee. But this is her first foray into elective politics. She's eager to take on David Wu, who she thinks is soft on terrorism and hard on small businesses. But first, she needs to get past two opponents, Tim Phillips and Jason Meshell, in the May primary. Two weeks ago, she sat down with John Schrag and Ellen Fagg in her Beaverton campaign HQ.

WW: Why did you leave Tehran?

Goli Ameri: I lived in Iran until I was 17, although I was in England and Switzerland for a few summers going to school there. When I came to the U.S. in 1974, it was a pretty normal thing for a lot of families. At the time, Iran probably had the highest number of foreign students in the United States. My two older brothers had come here to go to college, and I was next.

What was it like growing up under the Shah?

Compared to what it is today, it was incredibly stable and incredibly Western-oriented. I mean, the way you see me is the way I grew up, is the way my mother grew up. Women's rights were a huge issue. That's what all our mothers strived for; my grandmother, I think, was probably one of the first women who threw off her veil in the early '20s.

And how Western-focused was it? As a teenager, would you listen to American rock n' roll?

Absolutely. I remember writing "Make Love, Not War" in those kaleidoscope colors.

Bellbottoms, hip-huggers?

Oh, absolutely! Miniskirts, you name it. Yeah.

Your family was privileged?

Definitely. My father came from a not-very-well-to-do merchant family. But at the time, the father of the Shah was giving out scholarships to exceptional students so that they could go to France and they could study. My father got one, and he really wanted to be an engineer, but he didn't qualify for that so he ended up going to France and he became a doctor. The Shah and the government asked him to come back to Iran and set up a clinic to eradicate tuberculosis from Iran, which is what he did.

At the time of the revolution, you and your brothers were in the United States. What about your parents?

They were abroad at a medical convention and couldn't go back. And they confiscated everything of my father's: his house, his properties, the business, you name it--everything. So he, you know, stayed in France, where he still lives.

Did he ever go back?

Finally after 10 years he said, "This is crazy, I haven't done anything. I've got to go back and figure this thing out." By this time the government had toned down a little bit, so he was able to get his home back and he sold the home, and he decided to do charity work. So he built this five-story medical clinic, and got the government involved. It has really been his pride and joy.

Have you been back?

I went back for the first time about eight years ago because I wanted my kids to see where I had grown up. And then I went back again about four years ago to give a speech at a telecommunications conference, and that was another amazing experience because so many smart kids were so hungry for jobs and information and education. I don't know if you know or not, but there are now more female university graduates than there are male.

So there wasn't an effort after the revolution to force women back to...

Oh, they have tried. But, boy, the Iranian women have fought them tooth and nail. They have not allowed that.

Growing up, did you consider yourself a feminist?

At the time. Now, of course, I don't consider myself a feminist because now I've become more thoughtful.

Explain that.

If you're a feminist you kind of are a little anti-men. And I don't agree with that. I mean, I am 100 percent for equal rights for women. I think women are just as bright as men, and they can do things just as well as men do, but I think there's something to be said in being nice to your husband and taking good care of him and making sure that your marriage survives. You know, some of those things that I think the ultra-feminists are not really focused on very much.

Are there any issues you think women need to speak out about?

You know, I'd very excited to be another female member of Congress. I think it creates balance, because there is no doubt that the way men and women think on issues is different. It's neither good or bad, it's just different. And I can tell you that having raised two boys to be good, open-minded men when it came to women's issues. My son said to me a few months ago, "If I go buy a car, I don't think I want to buy a car from a woman." I could have killed him.

What do you think are the most urgent areas for young girls?

I used to watch MTV often with my boys, because I just kind of wanted to get some clue what was happening, and my comment was always: "Why are these women always shown half-naked?" Why is it the only role that we see for them in TV commercials is as some gorgeous sex thing? It's as if there's no brain there.

You sound like a feminist.

No. That's one of the reasons that I said maybe I'm not a feminist, because I think when you're a woman you have to accept the fact that your looks and the way you treat your family and your husband, those are all very important. But at the same time, your brains and your independence and your intelligence and all of that is equally important.

Have you ever felt limited by your nationality?

Never. If anything, always the opposite. I mean, I'm a new face for the Republican Party. I'm a woman. I'm--I hate the word, but for lack of a better word I'm ethnic.

The incumbent is a man, but he's also ethnic.

Which is one of the issues I have with Congressman Wu. I mean, this man is the first Chinese-American ever elected to the United States Congress. This country gives people like him and me a leg up. We have advantages because people want to see us succeed. He could have gone places if he wanted to.

Your background helps get you noticed, but what advantage would it give you as a policymaker?

I was born in a country in the Middle East. I have no romantic notions of what Islamic fundamentalism is all about. And I think I am uniquely qualified to speak as to how important it is that we continue this war on terrorism and that we remain in Iraq.

Did your family practice Islam?

I was born in a Muslim family, but in a secular family that taught me tolerance for all religions. My husband went to a Jewish elementary school. I went to an American international school, where we had kids of all kinds of faiths: Jews, Bahais, Muslims, Christians. My parents are both Muslims. My father is not practicing; my mother, though, is. And although I don't really practice a particular religion, I have a very deep faith in God.

What was that like for you after the 9/11 attacks, as one of "those people" of whom many Americans were suddenly fearful?

People were probably triply nicer to us. And my husband, my boys and I felt that it was our obligation to stand up and say, "This is wrong." And to be honest with you, I think more people of Middle Eastern heritage should have stood up in this country and been counted.

A lot of Arab-Americans not only felt threatened but were threatened. Did you get...

Never. My son, at the time, started at Exeter in New Hampshire, and we were there when he started school the morning of Sept. 11. My son looks very Middle Eastern, and people were doubly nice to him. In our family experience we have never, ever...I think one time in San Francisco I was speaking Farsi to my mother-in-law and someone walked up and said, "Speak English!" So I told them, you know, "I speak four languages--how many do you speak?" Other than that, it just never has been an issue with us.

Where do you stand on affirmative action?

I believe in affirmative action based on economic status--absolutely. I'm thinking of college admissions right now. If we're going to have some kind of advantage for a student who applies, I think that advantage has to be based on economic condition rather than race or ethnicity.

You studied in Paris. Your son is at Exeter. How do you relate to people in this district--including a lot of new immigrants who don't have the advantages that you did when you arrived?

That goes back to my upbringing. My mother was very focused on making sure that humility is a big part of your life. I was a nobody when I started here. I was nobody's daughter, I was nobody's granddaughter, I was just Goli Ameri. I was married to Jim, and he and I started with nothing and whatever we accomplished we accomplished because of what this country enabled us to accomplish. But I am the same person. And I am not an elitist. That is one adjective I dislike with a passion.

You're opposed to the proposed state income-tax hike, which included money for public schools. How do you respond to someone who says, "Well, you know, it's pretty easy for someone who's got a kid at Catlin Gabel."

Should I just sit back and say, "OK, I can send my kids to private school, so I don't want to do anything for anyone else"? No, I think that actually puts the responsibility even further on my shoulders to make sure that we manage our schools and our lives more efficiently. I sat on the board of Catlin Gabel School for four years, so I have a feel for what it costs to educate a child. And believe me, a private school like that squeezes out every last dollar.

You're a woman and you're an immigrant. Aren't you supposed to be in the other party?

I know. Isn't that amazing? I've got to be a Democrat! You're right.

So what went wrong?

I think business has something to do with it, and I have always been a big believer in a smaller government. So I think right away that kind of makes you a Republican. But I think on top of it, to be honest with you, I think Democrats talk a good talk, but when it comes to actually delivering, I don't really think they do it. You know when it comes to immigration issues, Democrats talk about them but Reagan was the person who did the most for all the immigrants who live in this country.

You support abortion rights but also support parental notification and the ban on late-term abortions.

Right. I'm a thoughtful pro-choicer. You know, I don't really know anyone who likes abortion, I really don't. I certainly don't like them--I'm a mother and, believe me, it is a big choice for a woman. And because it's a big choice, it has to be a thoughtful choice.

How about the new hot-button social issue, gay marriage?

You know, I think I'm with the American people on that. I think marriage is between a man and a woman.

Because?

It's always been that way. That doesn't say that gay people cannot be together or they can't have equal rights or their civil liberties cannot be protected. I mean, you know, it's the responsibility of any lawmaker to make sure that civil liberties of everyone is protected.

But gay partners often can't get health care, or have power of attorney when somebody's sick.

I think that comes back to being a free-marketer. I don't think these things should be mandated by the government. A lot of the more successful businesses have opted to provide benefits for partners, whether they're gay or straight.

What do you think of Hillary Clinton?

Well, I really haven't followed her policy very closely. Obviously the fact that she's outspoken and out there, that's been good, but I don't know whether this is all about Hillary or all about other women. I don't see a lot of humility in her. And I don't see a lot of self-introspection.

Did you read her book?

I did. I try to read a couple of French books to make sure that I don't lose the language, and I picked up her book to read in French. I'm sorry, I just thought this was a good--it was in front of my face and I just bought it.

You don't have to apologize.

There was not a lot of self-introspection in that book. I mean, nothing is ever her fault. And that's not possible--we all make mistakes sometimes. And she's a little harsh for my taste.

Sharon Kitzhaber

Born: Sharon LaCroix, Saskatchewan, Canada, 1956
Oregonian since: 1995, became a naturalized American citizen in 1996.
Occupation: Physical therapist turned cause-oriented advocate, mother.
Current project: Transitioning from volunteering as a public spokesperson for nonprofit agencies to employment as a business consultant.
Family: Lives in the West Hills with son Logan, 6. Divorced from former Oregon Gov. John Kitzhaber in early 2003.
Education: Earned a degree in physical therapy from the University of Saskatchewan.
Connections: Oregon Ballet Theatre, Students Today Aren't Ready for Sex (STARS), Safe Kids Campaign, Keep Kids Alive Campaign, Leadership to Keep Children Alcohol Free.
Influences: The Dalai Lama, Ayn Rand and Buckminster Fuller.
Hobbies: Running, gardening, flying small planes, sea kayaking.
Bumper Sticker: Everybody Poops.

Back in 1995, the surprise marriage of governor-elect John Kitzhaber to his long-distance girlfriend, Sharon LaCroix, seemed to herald an exciting new era in Oregon politics, the state's own version of Kennedy's Camelot. The new First Lady was an active, photogenic businesswoman who quickly adopted her own causes, most notably a high-profile effort enlisting teens to teach younger kids about abstinence--Students Today Aren't Ready for Sex, or STARS. In 1997 came news of Sharon Kitzhaber's pregnancy, and it seemed fitting that the state's First Son, Logan, would bear a name plucked from a Louis L'Amour novel.

That was then, of course, back in the state's high-tech boom years, when the former emergency-room doc-turned-governor earned national attention for crafting an innovative health plan to serve the state's poor. Back before two years of fierce budget standoffs, before the governor's relationship with the Legislature and the press grew distant and strained. Finally, 11 months ago, just days after Kitzhaber left office, news broke that the marriage was ending, too.

Now John Kitzhaber, the former statesman, remains determinedly out of the spotlight. At the same time, Sharon Kitzhaber is determinedly, optimistically, employing her First Lady connections to focus attention on kids-related and public-health causes, playing a public role more like Hillary Clinton than Jackie O. In February, for example, she'll join a handful of other prominent Oregon women pictured on a billboard devoted to preventing heart disease.

Earlier this month, Sharon Kitzhaber agreed to talk with WW about her work, insisting that the interview not focus on her relationship with the ex-governor. She sat down with Byron Beck and Ellen Fagg for two lively, wide-ranging conversations.

WW: Let's start with your background. Where did you grow up?

Sharon Kitzhaber: I'm a prairie girl from Saskatchewan.

Farming?

My dad was a steam and refrigeration engineer. Very blue-collar, very oriented to union issues, but I was not at all exposed to the arts or to culture.

Were you a scholarly student or a cheerleader?

Neither. Athlete. I was an A-minus student, mostly, though I didn't work real hard at it. Athletics is what really kept me in school.

Why did you leave Canada?

I wanted to get as far away from home and as warm as possible.

You moved to Hawaii. What next?

I stayed for a year, and then I had a job offer in Geneva, Switzerland. I worked in Geneva for a year as a physical therapist, and then I went back home to Hawaii, where I became a legal alien, and I lived there until I met John. After dating long-distance for four years, we decided I should move to Oregon.

What did you think about the role of First Lady when you decided to marry a politician?

I didn't think a whole lot about it. Just wanted to be with John, wanted to be in Oregon, thought it would be an exciting life.

You got married right before he was inaugurated. How did you prepare for public speaking and all the other highly visible aspects of the role?

Zero. I had never spoken publicly before--and now I love public speaking.

So how did you become comfortable at it?

John was a great teacher. He would always be practicing his speeches going to an event, so I would learn how to write them.

What was it like to be First Lady of a state at the same time that Hillary Clinton was trying to redefine the role nationally?

We'd gotten married on the first, John was inaugurated on the ninth, and then we were off to D.C., and--I'd never been there in my life--we get to stay at the White House in the Lincoln Bedroom! So, this is really happening very fast.

And you're thinking it was all going to be like that.

When I first met Hillary, she said there's no one who will understand what it's like--not your mother, not your sister, not your best friend--except another First Lady. And she was absolutely correct.

What do you mean by that?

One of my dear friends--Dottie Lamm from Colorado--was First Lady for 12 years, and she wrote a book called Second Banana.

That explains everything, doesn't it? Just that title...

Mostly I was so thankful that I wasn't the front person, that I could fade left, that I didn't have to show up to everything that John did.

The role of First Lady was a position you married into, not one you gained on your own. Did that feel awkward at times?

No. You just go forward in life, and so if I had stopped and thought about "Do I like this? Do I not like it?," maybe I would have come up with something different, but I just kept doing it and then it was over.

You got to do what you wanted to do?

Very much. I'm a goal-driven, strategy-oriented, outcome-focused person.

Were you under pressure from the Democrats to do more or be involved in other causes? STARS is almost what might be considered a traditionally Republican cause.

Well, yes, abstinence, pregnancy prevention. I think they were happy that I was out representing John and representing the party.

Is STARS effective?

Research shows that children in sixth and seventh grade don't want to be sexually active, but they don't know how to resist the pressure. And so that's the big difference in STARS, as opposed to Nancy Reagan, for example, who said, "Just say no." You really need to teach these kids--who are still concrete thinkers and not abstract thinkers--what the skills are. It's all about keeping the relationship but not bending to the pressure.

Were you planning to have children?

Not for most of my grown-up life.

It was a conscious decision, then.

Like most things, when I decide something, then I go after it.

What do you think of how the press treated your family? Did you set the boundaries--for example, that Logan wasn't to be photographed...

John did that. We didn't want him to be part of the story. They've been respectful about Logan, which was primary to me.

What was the most significant thing you learned about politics?

That the institution of politics is failing.

In what ways?

Doing politics for the right reasons has been largely lost. And the Oregon Legislature has become very malicious and mean-spirited and so focused on personal power plays that we are losing our effectiveness.

Some people might say some of that was because your ex-husband's administration wasn't very good at compromise.

He was a master of mediation and compromise, but he was unlucky. If you look back to other legislatures, they weren't composed of--of course, he was in previous legislatures, and so had always been a part of the mediation and collaboration, really working both sides of the aisle.

Can politics make you a better
person?

Bitter or better?

Both.

Well, it didn't make me one way or the other, but I think a lot of people are in politics for personal, aggrandized agendas. Rather than for the people, rather than being a servant.

How much did that kind of political distrust affect your marriage...OK, you've pointed to the stop button on the tape recorder, and you're not going to answer that. Next question. Why did you decide to stay in Oregon?

I feel I can live anywhere in the world, and there's no place right now that I'd like to live more.

Do you consider yourself a public figure?

No, not really. I have a large network. I have a lot of different circles. Very eclectic friendships.

Jonathan Nicholas' column in The Oregonian makes it sound like you're this society girl who's hopping around with girlfriends, hanging out with Gerry Frank every night of the week. Is that right?

I'd say--he could find someone else who has got a more interesting life.

You and John are involved in raising your son together. Is that difficult to work out?

We're friends. He's a great guy. John's a wonderful human being.

Public or private schools: Have you made the decision with your son?

Right now he's in a private school--the French American International School--and it has more to do with it being a full-immersion language school than it being a private or public school.

I think that's something people will look to, with his last name.

There are some really great public schools in town. There are some fantastic, heroic teachers who keep doing more with less. If there's 30 kids in a classroom and not enough books and not enough room--then that's not a place I will have my child.

There's a perception of elitism when people in the public eye put their kids in private schools. Are you worried about that ?

I don't think it's about elitism. I think it's more about fear about being in a public system that's under-invested.

When WW did its first profile on John, the reporter asked a simple question--cloth or disposable diapers?--and he was told it was awful to ask that. How can the public know their public officials if they don't reveal anything about their private life?

Well, you'd have to ask John about that. I think John was right in focusing on his job and what he was doing and what he was trying to achieve. Everyone has a different level. Neil [Goldschmidt] is on the other end of the spectrum: It's all about Neil. For John, it was all about the job.

Isn't that naive?

The balance is someone who just gives enough--without opening the door. You are owned. By putting oneself in a public position, the public owns some of you.

If there's a value to marketing, why did John refuse to market his value as governor?

There is almost zero hubris in John Kitzhaber. His popularity was very, very high--so there was no reason to do it. At the time, people liked his style. Remember, he was involved for 16 years before, governor for eight. Up until the last two years, when the legislative sessions became so personally vicious and economically difficult, it was a different story.

What are the three biggest misperceptions about John Kitzhaber?

The major one--what did Kulongoski say that was so unfair? He said, "The difference between John and I is that I like people." And that was so wrong--and you can print that--because if you study the work John has done and tried to do over the last 20 years, it's about making life better for people. He likes being around people, but he's not a social gadfly.

Another misperception?

For John to be criticized for not being a mediator, for not being a participant--I can personally tell you that visits and phone calls were being quietly done. He worked tirelessly trying to bring both sides of the aisle together. He is the consummate mediator. He doesn't need to win. He doesn't have an ego involved.

The third misperception?

He's a very funny guy. He has a great sense of humor. He's playful. He's not very shy. It's how he was painted.

He participated in some of that because--

He doesn't defend himself. He had no agenda to market himself. He had a big agenda to market his policies.

To the point of some lies about personal lives. The media asked questions about rumors of divorce, and were told no, and then that came out days later--

I'm not going there. I'm not even going to respond. That's a ridiculous question.

OK, OK, let's move on. What do you like about Portland?

I love the energy, I love the cultural opportunities, I love the size of the city, the ease, the infrastructure that supports that ease. I love the new developments in the Pearl and beginning on the east side. I love where I live because I'm virtually in a forest, five minutes from just about anywhere. And I love the people.

Did you like running a business?

I love being an entrepreneur. I had three physical-therapy clinics, with fitness centers in two of them. I ended up with 18 employees, but I always practiced physical therapy. It was really fun, and then it was time to sell it, and I sold it at a really good time.

Didn't you make enough money from selling your business that you could stop working?

Before the stock market fell, I could have owned that comment, but now I need to reenter the workforce.

So this is a year of transition for you?

I'm really excited about going to work, hopefully on a project basis, on the public-relations side, the promotion side, the connecting side and the strategic side.

What's next?

What I'm most passionate about is what I've been doing with nonprofits. I'm very focused on achieving goals. I think it's very simple, it's very linear: You start with a mission and decide on your goals, and then you have strategies along the way that are measurable. At the end of the day, you should be on target for the outcome.

Three on Three

Can you think of any role models for women under the age of 30?

Ameri: I can tell you who my role model is. It's Condie Rice. I just admire that woman so. But women under 30, my God.

Faludi: You know, I think there's something weird about wanting a role model under 30. Shouldn't we want a role model, like, over 80? Or dead? Eleanor Roosevelt maybe. But also I don't like role models. I think the best thing you can tell young women is to think for themselves, rather than trying to replicate Britney Spears.

Kitzhaber: My kickboxing teacher, Lisa [Wilson, who teaches at the Multnomah Athletic Club in Southwest Portland]. Because she has a way of inspiring older people to push themselves beyond any limits they ever dreamed. She is beautiful on the inside as well as the outside.

Have you ever felt limited by gender roles?

Ameri: Never. I do think, though, that as a woman you always have to work harder to get the same kind of recognition. But I think at the same time you have certain advantages that men don't. So I think they probably balance each other out.

Faludi: I don't think I'd run out and cover the Middle East right now, but you know, even if I were a man I might not do that. Half of it may be age, actually.

Kitzhaber: Somewhat in my business, being that I was dealing with mostly male doctors. But what I was doing was so unique, I wasn't competitive. That'd be another thing about women. Just not being so competitive, being helpful and collaborative.

Suspend all political and legal reality. You get to choose the next president of the United States, and your choice must come from the group of Democratic candidates. Whom would you choose?

Ameri: Joe Lieberman, because he sticks by his word even when it's not politically expedient.

Faludi: Anyone who can defeat Bush. Right now, I think Dean is the clear forerunner. What I like about Dean is, he says what he thinks, and he's angry, and he's tapping into a well of anger that needs to be expressed.

Kitzhaber: None of them. Given the selection, I would choose Dean. I think Hillary would be the best of any undeclared candidates.

As part of the Voices Lecture Series, Susan Faludi will speak on "Gender Relations in the Post 9/11 Era" on Wednesday, Feb. 11, at the First Congregational Church, 1126 SW Park Ave., 631-7477. 7:30 pm. $35.

To read Faludi's take on Schwarzenegger's women problems, visit www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1059005,00.html .

After a protracted lawsuit, in June 2002 a federal jury awarded $4.4 million to Darryl Cherney and the estate of Judy Bari (who died in 1997), finding that the FBI had violated the Earth First! organizers' constitutional rights. For more information visit www.sf.indymedia.org/news/2002/06/132458.php .

According to literary agent Sandra Dijkstra, Backlash was a huge bestseller, selling nearly 500,000 copies in the decade between 1991 and 2001.

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