Q&A: TED KULONGOSKI

This is Kulongoski's second shot at governor. The Lane County Democrat got trounced by incumbent GOP Vic Atiyeh in 1982.

We can only hope that would-be-governor Ted Kulongoski was playing possum during a visit to our office last month. Here's a guy who has forgotten more about Oregon government than the entire state House of Representatives learned in the past four sessions. He started as a state rep himself, back when state Sen. Ryan Deckert was toddling around in tie-didies. The Lane County Democrat went on the state Senate, followed by stints as state insurance commissioner, attorney general and, most recently, Oregon Supreme Court justice. And yet, when we asked him for specific plans for the governorship, he was about as helpful as a Qwest service representative.

With a big lead over his less-known Democratic rivals in the early polls, Kulongoski clearly had been reminded that loose quotes cost votes. We were tempted to award the ex-Marine the Medal of Reticence, but (for now) will take him at his word that more details will come out as the May primary gets closer.

Willamette Week: Why do you think you are the best person to be the governor of Oregon?

Ted Kulongoski: I think I have the best experience. I think I have accomplished the most.

Stop there and tell us what you have accomplished.

I have had the very fortunate opportunity to serve in a variety of different positions in both the House and the Senate. I'm very satisfied with what I did as a legislator. I served as the insurance commissioner, and I was the first director of the Oregon Department of Insurance and Finance. We undertook a major reform of the workman's compensation system. I worked at the attorney general's office, and we got environmental-crimes legislation done. We implemented a juvenile justice reform system-the first task force on elder abuse. I think that if you look at my tenure there, I left the office in a better position than when I got there. And then I went to the Supreme Court and am very happy and satisfied with my time there. So I have had the opportunity to serve in all three parts of the government.

Do you think you are the person who wants to be the governor the most?

Yes. Otherwise I would have never left the court-I was four years away from retirement. This is something I want very badly.

I have heard that you found some aspects of being a judge very challenging and invigorating, but there were parts of the job that you found boring.

That's absolutely true. You have to look at the culture. It is a very private life. I am an outgoing person. And you have to understand, the Supreme Court is a completely different decision-making process. When I first came to the court, we'd sit every Tuesday and have court meetings with just the seven of us, and I would say, 'My opinion is...' and one of my colleagues would say, 'How many votes do you have?' At first I couldn't figure out what he was talking about. Then I realized, you don't have an opinion until you have three votes, so at that point it is a collective decision-making process. And that takes a lot of getting used to.

Are there any specific things-and we mean specific-that you would like to accomplish as governor?

I think the state is at a crossroads. Most important is education, and I mean the whole spectrum of it.

I am not sure that was specific enough.

Well, I don't know what you are looking for.

Specifics.

What I want is a world-class system. It takes two things to improve higher education. First is leadership. Then there are some structural changes I would make. The hard piece, in my opinion, is the development of Portland State. My vision of Oregon includes a major first-class university up here in Portland, and we have to make a commitment to building that kind of institution. The problem is that when I talk about higher education, if it's just in a sense of this cultural aspect, the public isn't going to listen to too much debate about it. It has to be spoken of as an infrastructure investment, in the economy of the state and the future of Oregon; then you can get into a discussion about higher education. I actually think in the long term, the value of the new economy out here is in research and development-in being able to build these first-class universities in 20 or 30 or 40 years. That would provide us with the stability that we're looking for.

So other than education, what other areas are you specifically working on?

The other issue has to do with those industries we have here. I am a believer in a sustainable economy, particularly in rural areas. And I think that the natural-resource-based industries are going to continue to be the anchor. And actually, if you go back and look, you'll notice that the other service industries that came along-whether gas stations or grocery stores or whatever-always provided the larger number of employees. But I think that we have understood, and we're understanding much better today, that there are limitations. Now, when I talk about higher education, it isn't just about the new economy. I think that there are issues about agriculture and forest products that technology can be looking at.

Give us an example.

I actually think that one of the great tragedies in agriculture is the loss of the food-processing industry. Without it, I think it's very difficult for apple growers, or strawberry growers or whomever, to compete with the imports that are coming here. They're both putting a raw product into the marketplace. But if they could get-and you can look again at the food-processing industry-value added to the product, I think it becomes more competitive, and I think it's going to provide more stability.

Give us examples of how you're going to demonstrate to Oregonians that you're not just another card-carrying Democrat; that you've got independence of thought, a willingness to lead; that you're unconventional but not just for the sake of being unconventional; and that you've thought carefully about how to make this state run better, even if it brings opposition from some of your traditional constituencies.

Well, first of all, I am a Democrat, so I'm running as a Democrat. Second, I don't think that anyone can say that I have not been willing to challenge my core constituents, or to change their attitudes. When I thought that it was the right thing to do, I did that. When I became the attorney general, what became very obvious was that the elected public policy makers had lost control of the debate and policy setting in the criminal-justice system. With a series of measures, from Denny Smith to Measure 11, you had had the initiative process basically preempt the Legislature and the governor, making policy on corrections, and we got in this process of building prisons. When I became the attorney general, it became obvious to me that until the state responded to the concerns which the public had...

Which were what?

They were afraid for their own safety in their own homes and on the streets of their community. And until the state responded, they were going to listen to every argument and every initiative, and vote for every one that came up about getting tough on crime. The state had to do something about what I believe was the most pressing issue at that time, which was violent juvenile crime. The rates were going up. It was about guns, drugs and violence, and the public was seeing it in the newspaper every day, watching it on television, and they were becoming very concerned about their safety.

So what did you do?

We sat down and began a process, and that's where the Oregon Youth Authority came from. It was the capacity to actually understand what the public was concerned about, and do something about it. I remember standing up in rooms where people said, "We don't want to go there because, you know, the juvenile corrections piece used to be in the Children's Services Division." It was part of the child welfare program. And I wanted to move it out, and some very good people who I believe in very deeply were adamantly opposed to it. But I kept arguing, 'I can't get to the prevention piece'-which is what everybody wanted-'until this corrections piece is resolved.' And we did it.

So what's the lesson?

I'm suggesting there's a process involved in this, to tell the public, 'Listen to me, this is the vision I have.' It's what I believe explains the enigma of a guy like Bill Sizemore. You won't vote for him, but you listen to him. I mean, what is the message that he has that actually prompts people to vote for his measures? He keeps telling them, "Your government is inefficient, and it's not using your money wisely." What I'm saying is the first thing the next governor has to do is build that back up to take over the policymaking, or I don't think you can get to the issues that I want to get to with higher education and with transportation.

So, let's clarify here. Restoring people's confidence in government...

Critical.

...by basically saying, "Bill Sizemore is right, the government is inefficient, and we're going to make it efficient, because you can't do it through Bill Sizemore..."

It's an acknowledgment that there is truth to what he's saying.

So you acknowledge that. Now, here's my question: You've been in state government longer than just about anyone. Give me examples of the kinds of things-specific things-that you think you would be willing to do that others wouldn't or don't have the knowledge to do.

[Long pause.]

In my mind, I'm throwing you a huge softball. I'm throwing you a softball that has the word "PERS" written all over it, and you're refusing to take a swing. I am sure that you would agree with me that that is a system in need of reform.

I have answered a question on that very issue to the AFL-CIO. You can go to the questionnaire and read it. Obviously, legally, there is nothing going to be done to those people who are in the system. What you're asking me is prospectively, of whether that is an issue for debate. It is an issue that local governments have a great concern about. Obviously for the labor organizations it's an issue. Ultimately, someone is going to have to sit down and deal with that issue. Do I have a specific plan? The answer is no. I have nothing specific other than the fact that I think the cost of local government is such that it is going to become a major issue, probably in the next two to four years.

So why not say, 'I, Ted Kulongoski, am going to take PERS on both as a way of saving the state and local governments a lot of money and to demonstrate to Oregonians that I've got credibility to make state government work, even if the unions are nervous. It's going to be like Nixon going to China. I'm going to be able to get this done'?

I am not going to tell you that that's the issue that I am staking this campaign on, and running on. I am not going to tell you that. What I am telling you is that in fact there are a series of issues that I am aware of, and if you pick one of them, that it will probably be addressed in the process. And whether that's the issue that I run on, the answer is no. I'm more interested in a much broader issue about the economy of the state. It's what I described to you earlier, and what you asked me was what issue am I going to take on that nobody else has. And I told you higher education, in the broadest sense-to make that a priority. Now, there has been no governor who has done that, and I intend to do that.

Offer, if you will, a critique of the sitting governor. We know all the things you like about him.

I think that...well, if I do a critique I have to tell you what I like about him, but you don't want to hear that.

No, we don't.

What do you want me to tell you? I'm not going to tell you anything that...

I want to know what you think-with the understanding that overall he's a wonderful human being, and that he's done great service to the state and all that.

I think John has been a wonderful governor. That's just me. We can disagree, but I think that governors are like all people: We all have strengths and weaknesses. I'm not here to tell you about John's. I can tell you how I view the role of the position of governor, and you can make your own conclusion, but I think he's been a very good governor. I've never met anybody, in the six governors that I served with, who's had the commitment to the public that he has. A sense of public duty, and doing what is right.

OK. It's still months before the primary. You're a strategist right now: You're thinking about money, you're thinking about demographics, you're thinking about geography, you're thinking about faiths, you're thinking about issues that may not matter when you get to Salem, but are going to matter in a primary. How do you plot it out? How have you plotted it out?

I...actually, I haven't. I'm sorry. I've been spending my time traveling and talking to groups and trying to figure out some positions on issues. At the same time, I have my fund-raising responsibilities in this thing.

Have you hired a pollster yet?

Yes. Lisa Grove.

And did Lisa tell you something like "This race is going to be won or lost in Washington County," for example?

Honestly, I have not had that discussion with her. If I remember Lisa's mantra when I first met her: 'It's all about money.'

And how much money have you raised?

I have no idea. I know we reported $120,000 in the month of September, but I don't know about anything after that.

When we talk about your candidacy, the thing that comes up over and over is, 'Ted would be a great governor, but we're not sure if he's willing to work hard enough to get there.' What do you think they mean by that?

I have no idea.

You've never heard that?

I've never heard that.

People have not sat you down and said, 'Ted, if you want this, you've got to work really hard'?

No one has ever told me I did not work hard on these campaigns.

Really?

No, they have not. I have not had anybody tell me that, and I don't believe that that's true.

It's what people are saying.

Well, they're saying a lot of things. I can't do anything about that. I just run my own campaign. We have our own strategy, and we'll try to figure it out.

Has anything changed, as far as campaigning? Is that any different today than it was on Sept. 10?

Oh, yes. I think that what's changed is people. I think that there was a period of time that people were disinterested with all I had to say. They were listening, but I just think that they had other things on their mind. I think it then came to the stage, that there's a certain-and maybe I'm just reading into it how I feel personally-it's a certain sense of being off-balance. And off-balance because we're committed internationally, in Afghanistan right now, and probably a lot of people aren't quite sure where we're going, and when does this end. And I know the president has worked very hard to tell us, 'It's not going to end soon, it's going to be an ongoing process,' but I think that has a destabilizing or unbalancing effect. I think if you couple that with the economy...you know, the headline that I thought was just shocking was just 'Boeing to lay off 30,000.' I mean, I can not imagine the number of people that they're talking about being let loose. And that doesn't count all of the suppliers and everybody else further down. It's Freightliner. Those who are following the stock market are a little bit unsure. So if you package that all together, I think that people are a little unsure of themselves.

So how do you respond as a candidate, not for president, but for governor?

I know that I keep hitting it, and you ask me why it's a strategy about my résumé. But I think people are looking for a steady hand, I really do. I think they're looking for somebody that has experience, that they have some confidence in, that has been through this. And I've been through this process before, in the early '80s. And I think that's what they're looking for. That doesn't mean that they're not looking for what you're trying to find out-specifics. And I think it's a real challenge for those of us running because we're starting to see more of each other than we want. And the fact is, everybody has gravitated toward what I was talking about. And I think it's the instinct. It's not because they're not wanting to be creative, or challenging. It's the fact that I don't think that the public right now is looking for that. I think that what they're more concerned about is the stability aspect.

This is Kulongoski's second shot at governor. The Lane County Democrat got trounced by incumbent GOP Vic Atiyeh in 1982.

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